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Oren Klaff talks to Anthony Scaramucci

This is an exclusive interview with Anthony Scaramucci you definitely won't see anywhere else.

Harvard. Goldman Sachs. $8 Billion Fund .... Can you imagine if you were Anthony Scaramucci's assistant? You'd never keep up.

So take this chance to listen to how Scaramucci thinks about money, how he makes money and his advice for getting started in crypto. 

And yes, how he thinks today about those 11 days in the White House and what he's doing with his fortune and fame to help others.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Oren Klaff: So I had brought, Brock Pierce. I know him. He's an investor of horse. Oh, great. Yeah. So I brought Pierce, back here in the warehouse back there. When I had a set a couple of years ago, he goes, I'm all I'm doing is buying Bitcoin. You got to buy Bitcoin and. Very interestingly brought, get the fuck out of here with Bitcoin, right?

[00:00:18] Oren Klaff: What is this nonsense? And then he went on to buy, every Bitcoin to get his hands on. And obviously he was very pressured about it, but the one thing he wasn't able to clear up for me or us, is it an asset class? Is it a store of value? Is it a transfer of value? All the three, none of the above.

[00:00:35] Anthony Scaramucci: Yeah. I think it's too soon to be categorized as any of those things. I think it's 10 years from now. I would like to tell you that it's going to be a store of value. You could certainly look at its trajectory and say that it's done a good job of storing value. It has a lot of volatility to it.

[00:00:53] Anthony Scaramucci: And so that gets people concerned. But if you take a 30,000 foot view and you look at where Bitcoin was in 2013 and where it is today, it's certainly been a magnificent performer. But I think if there's something else going on, I think what Brock would say if he was here is that Bitcoin is fully engaged in the network effect.

[00:01:12] Anthony Scaramucci: It's fully engaged in Metcalf's law. And what did professor Metcalf say? He said that you can value things pursuant to the growth of their network. And so Amazon has a network. It's a retail network. Facebook is a social network. Google is an ad and information and advertising network. What is Bitcoin?

[00:01:34] Anthony Scaramucci: You tell me if it's a monetary network, then the coins will be worth a million dollars a coin. If it's a store of value network, then the coins will be a half, a million dollars a coin. If it's neither of those things, somebody would say then it's going to go to zero. Maybe, but maybe not. You just got done telling me that these Pokemon cards, some of those boxes are worth tremendous amounts of money.

[00:01:59] Anthony Scaramucci: Bitcoin is scarce. It's digital. You and I are of a generation that is probably not as familiar as the ether, the digital components to life, but we've got three ish, billion gamers out there, and people are very comfortable. Living in the digital world are comfortable living in the roadblocks houses and swimming in the roadblocks swimming pools.

[00:02:22] Anthony Scaramucci: And so there are things that will be worth something in the world of digitization. Look at what people's did with his piece of artwork. That first NFT, he sold it for 69 million Jack Dorsey's tweet. They digitized it and they encapsulated it. In an NFT it's sold for two and a half million, but not too dissimilar.

[00:02:43] Anthony Scaramucci: Look at that. Look at that. And Mickey mantle court.

[00:02:44] Anthony Scaramucci: So let me tell you something. That'll make you laugh. Okay. The 1935 monopoly game, you had a $1,000 in that game of monopoly money. The dollar in terms of its purchasing power is down 98%. If you went to eBay to buy the original paper, monopoly dollars, okay.

[00:03:12] Anthony Scaramucci: You would have to pay the, you were buying them in the game. There were worthless inside the game. You have to pay over a thousand dollars for them. So the monopoly dollar has gone up while the American dollar has gone down. Okay. So people have to tell me, if they don't want to accept it, they want to pretend that we're in a normative society where things ought to work a certain way.

[00:03:32] Anthony Scaramucci: Yeah. Our government ought not to. Borrow 51 cents for every dollar that is spending, they should not do that, but they are doing it. And so as a result of them doing it, we have to live in a society the way it is not the way we want it to be. And so we have to adjust ourselves accordingly. So Bitcoin is going to be worth something.

[00:03:52] Anthony Scaramucci: Or there are too many people, too many players involved. So if I'm right, I think it will be worth a half, a million dollars a coin. If I'm wrong. I don't think it's going to.

[00:04:03] Oren Klaff: And so how do you, it's a pretty crowded market of people, right? Raising money for crypto raising crypto funds. Kathy is that to say at the top of the food chain at the top of the pyramid, you go down a little bit, there's a lot more people.

[00:04:15] Oren Klaff: You go down to the base and there's a ton of noise. When everybody's trying to combine their barbecue grill website.com with AI machine learning, NFT, crypto, in order to get some kind of to 1999 [email protected], today, add crypto and AI and, get a bounce on your barbecue grill manufacturing plant.

[00:04:36] Oren Klaff: So it's very noisy down at the bottom, it's noisy in the middle, also at the top there's credible funds. How do you w you know, how are you differentiating really the pitch at the both at the institutional and family office level four, The way you're managing the app, the crypto asset class, or is there just enough demand that you're letting the people you want in?

[00:04:59] Oren Klaff: That'd be, I think that'd be very interesting.

[00:05:02] Anthony Scaramucci: Yeah. So I think this, I think is a really good question, but let me just go with your analogy for one step further. If it's a lot like the.com craze of 20 years ago there were survivors, even though there was a boom and bust cycle, and by March of 2000, the 5,000 NASDAQ went to 2,400.

[00:05:22] Anthony Scaramucci: It was down 55%. And the quote unquote dot bomb bubble exploded. Amazon survived. Amazon went down, but Amazon came back and became the killer app for retail. It's controlling 51% of the internet. Retail expenditures. I would say that's apropos to the day there's shit coins out there. There are ICO's that I think are likely to be worthless.

[00:05:47] Anthony Scaramucci: There's the toys, if you will, pets.com. But then you have Bitcoin and you have a theory them, and there will be certain players that I think make it to the other side of this thing. And so will they get roughed up on the way? Certainly there's never been a situation in our society where a new technology has come in and everybody says, oh, that's fantastic.

[00:06:11] Anthony Scaramucci: Let's embrace the technology, the stable. Owners and the carriage builders were like this horseless carriage is a bunch of nonsense. It's a fad it'll burn itself out who wants to drive around like that? Bill gates in 1995, he said that the internet was a fad. A Netscape came public. He said, I have no interest in that.

[00:06:30] Anthony Scaramucci: It's a fake bill gates with a fad, but sure. He got that wrong. And then he adapted and pivoted, and he built Explorer and he went on to create tools related to the internet and the cloud and all this other stuff. So what happens is you have early adopters, they'll try anything.

[00:06:47] Anthony Scaramucci: They're excited about it. They think it's the future. That could be the people that were wearing the Google glass. You remember the glasses from Google? They were going to change our world. There would have put in your field of vision, their search capabilities will turn it out. That it was too awkward.

[00:07:01] Anthony Scaramucci: People's giving them headaches, didn't work. But Bitcoin's different. I think, it's a network. It fits the bill for how societies look at money and stores of value. Remember gold is only worth 5% of its value for manufacturing purposes. The other $7,000,000,000,007.3 trillion ascribed to gold is based on society's perception of its store of value.

[00:07:30] Anthony Scaramucci: We know axiomatically that money is never worth what the goods and services are that we're trading for it. Let me show you we're on a video cast, right? I can show this. So this is my neighborhood. These are known as Italian singles. See those tiny singles again, let's talk about these for a second.

[00:07:47] Anthony Scaramucci: This is a piece of fabric. It's let me get it in the frame. It's got a nylon in it. It's got cotton in it. So fabric, it's not paper, it's not paper money. And what's in there. It's a green paint. There's a Ben Franklin has Ivy and a president has pictures on there. There's a counterfeit strip.

[00:08:04] Anthony Scaramucci: It's absolutely worthless. Okay. Worthless. Okay. However, not to you and me because I can hand this to you and I can get goods and services out of you or vice versa. Or if I gave this as a tip to the valet tonight, my car is going in the front of the restaurant. If I gives us the pizzeria, I'm getting a pizza.

[00:08:20] Anthony Scaramucci: If I give it to my lint landscaper, he's going to cut my grass. It's worthless. So when people say Bitcoin is worthless. What is this worth? What it is the trusted network among billions of people that perceive this slip of fabric as worth something. And so once it's scaled and the network is solidified and that's what's happening with Bitcoin.

[00:08:42] Anthony Scaramucci: Now, the best thing about Bitcoin is I can't make. And big in the Bitcoin world. There's an infinite supply of these, how many of these were made by the federal government this year $469 billion was printed by the federal government this year to a swatch, the societal issues that we have related to the recession and the pandemic you tell me, is that sustainable?

[00:09:09] Anthony Scaramucci: Long-term maybe it is. There's a generation of people younger than you are. I don't think that it is. And therefore they want to move to a different standard. El Salvador, they destroyed their Fiat currency. The new government there says, okay we're going to go to something that's more standardized that can't be held to the capricious whims of policymakers or politics.

[00:09:30] Oren Klaff: So I think, most of the people that I get into this conversation with, are of this direction, that sure it's worth something. But I would say, not long ago, I don't know, five, six years ago, I acquired 27 hotels in 18 months with a partner. And so if you think about acquiring an asset and I looked on Wikipedia, you have some physical assets, so then it's incumbent on you to build a proforma and say, these are our assumptions.

[00:09:54] Oren Klaff: This is, this, our cost of capital. This is our cap rate. This is how we project our exit. This is what we think the market does. This is our competition. This is how the asset, performs over time and how we increase the value of it. And when we think we've maximized the value and are in an exit path, so those are traditions.

[00:10:14] Oren Klaff: Acquire an asset, mature it, season it, and either, retain it if it continues to do well or have an exit analysis. So how, when you're raising capital. So I don't think anybody that I'm involved with disagrees that there's stored value that there's asset value to some degree there's transfer value in crypto, specifically Bitcoin, as the apex predator in crypto.

[00:10:37] Oren Klaff: But how do you then raise capital for a fund without the tools of traditional? So I'm acquiring two shipping vessels, in energy. And so we did the exact same exercise, I'm acquiring a FinTech company, not quite the same, but we have customers and we have revenue and we have advertising metrics.

[00:10:57] Oren Klaff: And then we have, historical NOI and we have a competitive set and we have a pretty good understanding of how the firm will grow given, we do a good job executing, but it seems like all those traditional tools are not available in pitching a crypto. Either the currency or a fund that invest in the currency.

[00:11:18] Oren Klaff: What's the ROI, what's the architecture. For a pitch in digital assets in your mind?

[00:11:24] Anthony Scaramucci: I think, and there's a lot of different pitches. You mentioned Cathy wood NY dig th the Kathy's research or night eggs research, I would pour your listeners and viewers to look at it. I'm not going to do a service in two minutes, but I think the pitch is the network effect.

[00:11:41] Anthony Scaramucci: The pitch is med castle law. Apple works because of Metcalf's law. Google works because of Medicare pro professor Metcalf explained to people that there is fundamental value in the network. Let me give you a vivid example of that. Let's take an old fashioned network. Like Coca-Cola, Coco's a network now you and I could produce a soda with the same formulas, Coke and Coke.

[00:12:08] Anthony Scaramucci: Oren Cola. You were not going to get the market share, but Coca Cola, the word Coke is the second most recognized word in the English language or the phrase in English other than, okay. So it's okays number one, Coke is number two. So let's say you and I took this old fashioned network and destroyed it. We ripped up all their bottling plants blew up.

[00:12:30] Anthony Scaramucci: Everything blew up. Their corporate offices destroyed their trucks. And then we walked over to a wall street firm and said, we have these words, Coca Cola, could you help us raise a billion dollars? We're going to restart this thing. We would get the money. So let's say we had a URL, cars.com a stream.

[00:12:50] Anthony Scaramucci: SkyBridge these URLs, we proved 20 years ago that these URLs are worth something, you pick the w but Anthony, all it is a word. And it's a destination on the internet. Yes. But it'll collect traffic. Bitcoin has scaled because it's got 125 million users. So my pitch is a understand money, understand what's happening to Fiat currency in our lifetime, understand the scarcity of Bitcoin, understand the impregnability of its safety in terms of its transferability.

[00:13:26] Anthony Scaramucci: Also understand that it's not the Luker of money launderers and schemers look at what just happened to the colonial pipeline, ransom people. They found them and they got their Bitcoin. They didn't hack the keys. They had a very good understanding of who the Russian hackers were that hack them.

[00:13:44] Anthony Scaramucci: They identified their email traffic, and then they were able to take their Bitcoin. So as Mike Burrell said, the former CIA director, this nonsense that Bitcoin is a devoid of knowledge and, capable of all this anonymity dollars capable that it may take those Italian singles and put them in a briefcase in hand with somebody that's less traceable than Bitcoin.

[00:14:08] Anthony Scaramucci: So to me, my pitch to people is, listen, we've been proved everything in our lives, more or less, but some things have been made worse. You could argue if you're a Luddite, but think a look at this phone, see it, that phone can eat up every single book in this library. And then there's room for pictures.

[00:14:22] Anthony Scaramucci: Then there's room for videos, home videos, music, videos, but then there's more, I've got apps in there. I've got games in there. This device is an earth shattering miracle, and it's too good to be true. And so people are investing. They say don't invest that these are too good to be true, but what about.

[00:14:39] Anthony Scaramucci: What about apple? Apple went from $10,000 on its IPO to 21 million, $140,000 today, 24 years later. But you had to stomach eight turns where apple dipped below 50% of its from a 52 week high, but you had a stomach that, so to me, my message is this is networking. This is a networking effect. It's grown to 125 million it's on its way to a billion it's scarcity.

[00:15:10] Anthony Scaramucci: And so the result of which it will be worth more. And if the sits ashy Nakamoto was right, just read his his white paper. Sorry about that. But just read his white paper. If Satoshi Nakamoto is correct you're going to have the Bitcoin standard. El Salvador believes that. So if I'm listening to this origin, any Anthony talking about.

[00:15:31] Anthony Scaramucci: Crypto, they're thinking that Oren needs my skin products. That's what they're thinking if they are.

[00:15:37] Oren Klaff: I would say if you're that, look, we see a lot of deals today. Evaluate stuff. I'd say if you're that deep in crypto, I don't know why you do a skin product, but this is a different conversation, unless you're personally,

[00:15:47] Anthony Scaramucci: I'm only doing it for this would be a skin product that would be exclusive for you.

[00:15:52] Oren Klaff: I need products in other areas first. Okay. You're going to have to go to pharmaceutical companies for that. Okay. I can only offer the non drug oriented stuff I'm on it. That's I, that's why I have the that part of search, that doesn't show up in history.

[00:16:06] Oren Klaff: So I'm watching Orin and Anthony talk about crypto and I want to get in, I'm not buying. 24 or $60,000 Bitcoins as a point of entry where, so somebody is enamored with this. They do think it's the future of finance. They do agree with your perspective that it's a network effect, but the cost of entry is too high for, kid entering a couple of guys around the office, they're beginning their careers in finance.

[00:16:34] Oren Klaff: Where would you direct them to? I wouldn't say safely get started, but mitigate their exposure. So they have enough time, to get familiar and enough time to pattern, match and understand the trades without going in once looking for a big gulp return, not getting it. And then bowing out too quickly.

[00:16:55] Oren Klaff: How do you where would you, from your perspective. Suggest those kids get a point of entry that's sustainable. So I think it's a brilliant question. And so if it's on small dollar amounts, I would recommend a place like Glock fire Corrine base. I think those places can accommodate people. Block fire actually has a credit card there.

[00:17:15] Anthony Scaramucci: And so you can make your purchases and get a rebate in Bitcoin, I think is a pretty nifty idea block FI's growing very fast. I will point out that I'm an investor in both of those companies personally. So I just full disclosure, but what I would say is get started, I grew up, in the middle-class my dad was a laborer.

[00:17:34] Anthony Scaramucci: He was an hourly worker. I would never dishonor his work ethic Orin by telling you I grew up poor. I did not grow up poor. We had a budget and if my dad's work hours got cut things around the house got cut. If he had extra overtime, maybe we got the Schwinn bicycle, it was up and down.

[00:17:49] Anthony Scaramucci: Pursuant to his labor. But why am I bringing this up? I'm bringing this up because I didn't have any meaningful money as a kid. When I went to Tufts, I had to borrow the money when I went to Harvard at a borrow the money. And when I got out, I said, okay, how am I going to start from minus zero to get myself to a meaningful net worth?

[00:18:07] Anthony Scaramucci: And there's a couple of simple ways to do that. And that is you're going to make a decision to pay yourself first. And so if I make a thousand dollars, I made a decision. Every thousand dollars, a hundred dollars went to a mutual fund or went into a savings account, or I bought Disney stock with it or whatever it was.

[00:18:26] Anthony Scaramucci: And what I would tell young people today, you have to make that decision, buy less tokens on Fortnite or. Bucks or whatever they're called. And just say, you know what, I'm going to put a hundred dollars a week away in something because I have to be necessarily Bitcoin. It could be an ETF, it could be a stock and bond ETF.

[00:18:46] Anthony Scaramucci: It could be anything, but what ends up happening. If you take that philosophy in your twenties, the money begets money and it starts to aggregate and snowball. And when it starts to happen in a magnificent way, it'll take some pressure off you. We're also training yourself to live with less. Because what we find is that we don't need that much.

[00:19:07] Anthony Scaramucci: What are you gonna buy a second day? Let's say you're worth a billion dollars. Okay. That's great. Mazal Tov. How many planes? How many houses, how many pieces of art? What are we doing with the stuff? Okay. Then ultimately it's almost the universe telling you something that there's simplicity.

[00:19:23] Anthony Scaramucci: We know that the best ideas are simple ones. We know that the best concepts are simple and we know that when we're simplifying our lives, we think more clearly. So for me, I would tell young people you want to get rich. You want to be financially independent, start saving. Is Bitcoin a good place to do that?

[00:19:42] Anthony Scaramucci: Yes. Is it going to have volatility and risk? Yes, it will. But that's what I would do. I'd open up a block by account or a Coinbase account and full disclosure. I have ownership in both and I just opened my block fee account. I'm waiting for my credit card. But that's what I. And do your, thank you.

[00:19:57] Oren Klaff: Appreciate that. And I think I would agree with that. And if you're listening to this, that's a great place to start. And if you lose if your investment goes down, then call me and I'll give you an Anthony's number. And you talked to him about it, but no. So what, and do your kids have a budget?

[00:20:13] Anthony Scaramucci: Most is not investment advice. I just said that on behalf of SkyBridge compliance, I'm just asking one regiment asset does not indicate a clear future performance, and you should not rely on past performance in order to make this investment click here for acknowledgment. Thank you very much. And some foreseeable impacts may exceed this helmet's ability to protect the user from certain injury or death.

[00:20:34] Anthony Scaramucci: There you go. There's two disclaimers that are like that. What you just read? I went to law school and I only learned two things in law school. Can I tell you what they are or weren't? The first one was, don't be a lawyer. That was the first thing I read. And then the second thing was avoid loss. I think that was the second thing.

[00:20:52] Anthony Scaramucci: So the point being is that yeah, you got to read that and everyone wants to Sue each other and everyone's angry with each other all time, but don't focus on any of that. Either just focus on the simple stuff. One last point on this my 80 year old mentor at Goldman is a terrific guy. He's a young, he's 80 years young.

[00:21:11] Anthony Scaramucci: He told me something that I never forgot and I will share it with everybody. Hit the target from 10 feet. Like the gun you got, the target hit the target from 10 feet. You don't have to outsmart yourself. You don't have to buy XYZ. I, coin initial coin offering. If the buy the latest ICO, that's going to beat.

[00:21:33] Anthony Scaramucci: The target there's Bitcoin shoot at the target. Excuse me, one sec.

[00:21:40] Oren Klaff: Yeah. So that's my court. Couldn't agree. And so turning this around and just something stuck in my mind that you said, so you do your kids have a budget. Does your seven-year-old, have a, obviously he doesn't have a can walk, but if he says he wants something and he needs it, does he basically assume he's gonna get it?

[00:21:58] Anthony Scaramucci: Yes, he is. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I am a helicopter parent. I'm a total jackass. I have two parenting stimuli. One is bribery and the other one is threatening. Okay. That's how I parent. Okay. I had a tight budget. I didn't grow up with a lot again. I, we were in the middle class, so I have showered my kids with stuff.

[00:22:20] Anthony Scaramucci: Yeah. Has that been the right decision or not? I don't know the answer to that. You'll have to interview me in 30 years, but here's what I do know. The adult kids are motivated. They're very hard working. I think the reason why they're hard working is their program that for hard work. But I also think they do observe their parents.

[00:22:40] Anthony Scaramucci: Their parents are hardworking. And so they've got to say to themselves, what the hell am I going to do? My point is you're going to have a decent amount of money. Is that going to be enough? So when you wake up in the morning, what do you want to do? I want to help people build teams. Talk to people like you, very smart people over the airwaves.

[00:22:59] Anthony Scaramucci: I want to write some books. I want to build an asset management company and grow it. I stupidly went into the white house. I thought that was going to be helpful. It was not I'm not being cynical. I'm just not wired to be a politician or a public servant. So I'm wired to be an entrepreneur. Let's stay in that lane.

[00:23:17] Anthony Scaramucci: You mentioned that you noticed I didn't bring that up at all. Yeah. You could bring it up. I think it's a case study in how you get your ass kicked and you dust yourself off and you get up and you move on. I think that's exactly right. I think my peer group is mainly 20 to a hundred million dollar guys just because the business I'm in.

[00:23:33] Oren Klaff: And nobody cares about that stuff, they care about th I have never heard anything negative. You know about the short timers there, or, perspective on that. And then just really look at the bigger career arc and what you're really doing and what the values are. And, they try and connect activity to values, to career arc.

[00:23:58] Oren Klaff: And if those three dots tie together, they go, eh, good guy would, would give the guy a chance to work with. . I think you're, I think you're, I think you're very insightful and I think you're describing the human emotions and the travails of what actually happens. And I think the smartest among us, and by the way, I'm not saying this is me.

[00:24:17] Anthony Scaramucci: I am aspiring to be this. I'm not a sanctimonious person where I'm going to tell you, oh, you should do this, but I'm not doing it myself. I'm trying to do it is to take your self out of the game. One of the, one of the, in the serious now, one of the real good things I learned in law school, if you're being cross-examined, the attorney is trying to egg you on ire, you incite your anger.

[00:24:40] Anthony Scaramucci: He is play acting. He's hoping you're going to unspool in front of the jury. And therefore the testimony that you just gave will be discredited. By the jury. And so it's an act it's Kabuki theater, but a lot of life is Kabuki theater. And it's your goal when you're in there being cross-examined is to play act back don't show emotion, show dispassion, and show clinical assessment of something.

[00:25:07] Anthony Scaramucci: You know this better than anybody, you have to do that in the investment world too. When I got blown from the white house, I could have reacted emotionally. And I think that would have had great consequence. I didn't do that. I reacted dispassionately. I said, okay, this is what I did wrong.

[00:25:21] Anthony Scaramucci: Let me own what I did wrong, but let me not make the mistake that Billy Bush made or others. Let me not go dark. Let me get right back up on the horse and start talking to people about what I think. I think that's great. It's an M and M song. If you, yeah, you slept with my mom, I'd drive a shitty car sleeping, I live in a trailer, my clothes, are secondhand.

[00:25:40] Anthony Scaramucci: What else would you like about a hundred percent? Just get in front of them. It was a, it's a very, it's a very interesting strategy because what we're hiding. Guess what other people are hiding it too. And so when you put it all out on the table, the first reaction is, oh, okay. I have a lot of that stuff.

[00:25:58] Anthony Scaramucci: I identify with this person. I have empathy for this person. This is there, there's all these concerns about privacy today. Like for me, I'm not too concerned about it. You can come, you can put a camera in my house. Try and keep it out of the bedroom, but put it in the bedroom.

[00:26:10] Oren Klaff: You're not going to see anything. I've got a wife and a kid and you're going to see you. You're going to get, turn that video feed off pretty soon. You can watch it, you can put cameras in my house. You can read my texts. You're obviously not Italian. I can't have anybody put a camera in my bedroom.

[00:26:24] Oren Klaff: I'd say, I think my wife would get mad, but I don't know what you're going to see in there. That's going to be, worth an only fan to page. If you're transparent and you're accountable well, but I think it's vulnerable. I think at the end of the day, if you're willing to, you have enough self-confidence to express your vulnerability, you can build a lot of relationships because people are searching for the same things.

[00:26:48] Anthony Scaramucci: We, whether you're rich or poor, you're human, you're living the human condition and the trials and tribulations of it. One of the sadder stories was bill gates talking about his mom 20 plus years ago. She died of breast cancer. I think Charlie rose at the time interviewed him. Both of those guys have had a rough time reputationally since then, but let me take you back to that moment, Charlie rose interview.

[00:27:12] Anthony Scaramucci: I'm one of the richest people in the world, if not the richest there was nothing I could do on planet earth to save my mom's life. She got. And the old time death, she didn't live to what we would have hoped would have been her natural life expectancy. And there was no amount of money in the world that I could supply because we had not figured out the appropriate drug therapies for whatever diseases she had related to her breast cancer.

[00:27:36] Anthony Scaramucci: So the point on making rich or poor, you are living as a human being encapsulated on this temporal planet and a result of which that should make each of us sympathetic to each other. I'm not trying to be overly philosophical, but I tell my kids, you want to build relationships with people, be real with them, break down the barriers.

[00:27:55] Anthony Scaramucci: I find sometimes I could walk into a room. Orrin people have already made an opinion of me. They've read about me. They didn't like my Twitter feed. They thought I was a buffoon to work for Donald Trump, or now they dislike me because I think Donald Trump is a buffoon. It doesn't matter. They don't know me now they meet me and then hopefully they'll form a different opinion and maybe it'll be a better one.

[00:28:16] Anthony Scaramucci: In some cases it will be a worst one, or maybe it will confirm what they think, but I would rather put it all out there and let the person make the decision. And I think it's a good, I think it's a good, healthy way to live. So that's awesome. And triggered up a couple of questions in my mind. W do you have a technique?

[00:28:33] Oren Klaff: I know I have, I don't want to put ideas or words in your mouth, like when you do walk in a room and there is a preconceived notion about you. And I think the. The CEOs we work with, cause we, we help companies raise money or go public or sell themselves or sell or raise capital is a bit right.

[00:28:50] Oren Klaff: And so they walk in a room and the most common thing is that the investors or the buyers have forgot all the material. And I'm sorry, could you start at the beginning? And there's no framing, it's a blank sheet of paper and the meeting can't really be effective because now they have to go all the way back and cover the basics.

[00:29:08] Oren Klaff: So the meaning can't really go into the depths of the company cause they just got to cover, Hey, where, you know a FinTech company, we've got $30 million in revenue. We're growing 30% year over year and we're trying to do a $25 million recapitalization, but they have to cover all that in there's no time left to really get into the meat.

[00:29:25] Oren Klaff: So either there's no preconceived notion or more problematically, it's negative. Quick ideas from your perspective.

[00:29:35] Anthony Scaramucci: I haven't thought about it from a process engineering point of view. So I don't have a formula, but I think when I'm reflecting upon it intuitively it's a little bit of the a M and M it's one part M and M it's one part I have found if you have a sense of humor, it goes a long way with people, particularly if you're not worried about having a sense of humor at your own expense, when I'm on Steven Cole bear and he wants to kill me cause he hates Trump and he says did you think you were going to last a long time in the white house?

[00:30:06] Anthony Scaramucci: I'm like Steven, I thought it was the last longer than a carton of milk in the refrigerator, and all of a sudden the room lights up, and then he lightens up. He recognizes that I'm not, I'm not hiding my foibles. I'm not hiding my fault. And so I think it's, I think it's one part here's something I would tell you and you know this, okay, because you are natively intelligent, but you're also natively intuitive.

[00:30:29] Anthony Scaramucci: So you know, this already, there's a switch in your head. You meet somebody as a switch in your head phony. Whereas this is a decent person, man, or woman. I want to have a beer with the person or a drink, phony, let's go buy a drink and you do it all day, and you meet the people's phony and, right away.

[00:30:46] Anthony Scaramucci: If I, if someone is trying to smooth over something or pretend something about themselves doesn't exist or, let me explain it. It wasn't my fault. None of it, it was everybody else's fault in the room and it wasn't me. And I was at fault. Person comes to the room. Yeah, I own that. I made a stupid decision, by the way, what I said about Steve Bannon was fucking one of the funniest things I've ever said, but, and by the way, it was fake news.

[00:31:13] Anthony Scaramucci: Look at me, Steve Bannon. Couldn't do what I said. Look, there's no chance you could do what I said. He's not at the hot yoga, but I said it, I said to somebody, I trusted the guy went and ran over to CNN with it. That's my bed. I own it. Fuck that guy. So you know, and that's good that you own it.

[00:31:29] Oren Klaff: I guess, tell me if you agree with this or not. I I have to get on calls from time to time, with billionaires, lots of times with guys controlling billions of dollars. Not sure their attitude is any different. But certainly very frequently guys were, 40 to $150 million.

[00:31:44] Oren Klaff: Just seemed to be more of those guys than you would think. And I try and get ahead of this by finding some income in Congress thing that they've got on their website. And then what they're saying. And so from a process standpoint, I call them out and I try and get ahead of them running that power frame on me or making casting judgment on me by saying, Hey, I'm confused.

[00:32:09] Oren Klaff: I look at your website, we'll give you a perfect example. So I go to founders fund, with Peter Thiel and Luke Nosek and those guys. And they start giving the company that I have there a ton of shit for their financials and giving them a hard time and not wanting to put the next round of capital in.

[00:32:25] Oren Klaff: They've already invested in being very hard on the company CEO he's in genetics to tough deal, a very competitive market. And so I say, Luke, I'm confused. Look at your website. You say on the website, we are the founders fund. We're founders friendly. We know what it's like to be a founder here. You have a gun.

[00:32:47] Oren Klaff: Who you're already investing in, he's doing the best he can. And you're grinding on him as if you're a private equity firm and and which is it, are you the founder friendly fund, right? Or you want to grind because we're confused about you. So is that a credible technique in your mind to call people out on their values?

[00:33:06] Oren Klaff: If they're acting insane, two different things to get ahead, because I find those guys are my last thoughts. They're just naturally going to put power frame and pressure on you because that's the way they're built. Not a lot of guys like you who are smooth and value-driven, and I'm really enjoying the conversation and talking over you.

[00:33:24] Anthony Scaramucci: Fascinating. It's a fascinating question. So again, I'm want to react to it intuitively more than from a process, but what I would say to you And man, I'll probably get in trouble for this. If my son is listening to this. So I have a 22 year old son who goes by MOOC, you can find him on Twitter at MOOC world, or you can go to Instagram and find them at MOOC.

[00:33:45] Anthony Scaramucci: Okay. So he's stolen all that stuff and not stolen. He's taken he's better at it than me. He is a videographer and the music industry's done videos for Travis Barker machine gun Kelly, his last two music videos, trended to number one in the world. Now I probably sound like I'm bragging about them. I'm just trying to frame it for you.

[00:34:03] Anthony Scaramucci: Okay. So he's got this creative skill, this directorial skill, but he doesn't have the administrative functionality, which makes sense because lots of people that have creative skills go and have that functionality. So rather than me hitting them with a stick and saying, you got to have that, let's find somebody.

[00:34:23] Anthony Scaramucci: Okay. And the person that he's working with. Is rough on the furniture. Okay. He has sharp elbows. That does happen. Okay. But it's also Oren another 22 year old. So I have assessed that the guy is a good guy and he's sewing as oats. He's finding his way. So now it's my job to be the best version of myself and coach him.

[00:34:45] Anthony Scaramucci: Okay. And but if I thought he was a bad guy and the wrong fit for my son, I would say, this is the wrong guy. Let's try to eliminate this guy from your life. You see what I'm saying? So now let's go back to the founder's fund. Now that I framed it for you. If the guy is a good guy and he's operating off of a value-based system that you just described, that's flawed.

[00:35:08] Anthony Scaramucci: I'm interested in coaching him. I'm less interested in judging and eliminating him if he's a bad guy. Okay. And he's just doing that in a nefarious way where he's boasting one thing, but he's doing a different thing. Then I want to move on. But I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt that there might be some room.

[00:35:27] Anthony Scaramucci: And by the way, he may be incredibly talented. I've got people in my office that I think can be rough on the furniture, but they're super effective at what they do. Do. I want them with tons of fabric softener in their bodies to soften them up. And now all of a sudden they're not as effective.

[00:35:45] Anthony Scaramucci: Maybe I don't want that. Maybe I need some heavies in the office. You see what I'm saying? But it sounds like what you're describing is the guy is running a little bit of a false advertising campaign. And either he's, he should be called out on it and given the opportunity to reform it. And then if he's not willing to reform it, then you gotta blow them out.

[00:36:03] Oren Klaff: I do feel like in finance, I feel like finance. And tell me if you agree with this, everybody's a heavy, right? You got, you. Are an anomaly. I talked to a lot of hedge fund managers, private equity guys, were on like a couple of calls a day, talking whether it's 30, 40, $50 million at stake.

[00:36:23] Oren Klaff: And the guys on the other side are always running a heavy game. Because they're either they're trained to do it or the nature of it. And so I feel like coming into that system, you have to come in throwing being prepared for that heavy game right off the bat. Otherwise you just get backed up.

[00:36:41] Anthony Scaramucci: Yeah. I'm not look, I don't believe in it. Okay. Because we're talking about our kids. I don't want my kids to grow up to be decks. And if you act like an asshole in business and you act like a heavy in business, and then you think you can go home and you can switch it off and all of a sudden.

[00:37:00] Anthony Scaramucci: Robert Young from fathers knows best or leave it to beaver, not going to happen. And so I would rather be consistent across the board of who I am and what I'm doing. And if I've missed a few deals, that's fine. And if I've gotten a few deals, that's fine, but I'm think I'm delivering results for my clients.

[00:37:19] Anthony Scaramucci: I'm doing it in an honest and ethical way. And I will tell you this, okay. And this is a big lesson for your listeners. You will be a happier person and you will also have friends, always. If I was a heavy and a Dick we'd, let's use that very professional, formal expression. And I got my ass fire from the white house.

[00:37:40] Anthony Scaramucci: And you meliorated the way I did. I don't think there would have been anybody there to catch me, or I think, when you're, when you're not nice to people on the way up, you're going to see the same people on the way down or there I was coming down and there were a lot of guys there, men and women trying to catch.

[00:37:53] Anthony Scaramucci: Hey man, you were a good guy to me. What can I do to help you through what you're doing right now? And so I'll leave you with this one last thought. We can talk forever, but on this topic, one last thought on this topic on 35, I'm 57 now. So that was 22 years ago. Cashing li Ka-shing the property tycoon.

[00:38:14] Anthony Scaramucci: I get a meeting with him. My colleague calls me I'm in Hong Kong. It's a Sunday morning. You're going to go meet the old man. I'm super excited. Mr. Lee is now 92. I put my suit on, I go to his office. He's just got done playing golf on the mainland in Kowloon, and we're having a cup of tea and it's a Sunday morning.

[00:38:35] Anthony Scaramucci: Anthony, what do you think of the market? This is the richest most successful person in Hong Kong. He's now Superman. Warren buffet is the li Ka-shing of America. Do you have any sense of the scale of this guy? What do you think of the market? So Warren, I look at him, I say, okay, man, if I'm talking in this meeting, this is going to be the worst meeting of my career.

[00:38:55] Anthony Scaramucci: I'm 35, this guy, 70, what the hell is he going to learn from me? So I turned to, I said, Mr. Lee, the market could go up or down. We both know that, but I'm 35. You just turned 70 you're twice my age. What could I learn from you? So what could I take from you in this meeting that I can take with me for the next half of my life?

[00:39:18] Anthony Scaramucci: Okay. And now all of a sudden, the meeting becomes interesting. He sits back. He starts telling me his career, how he was building these plastic flower, exporting them. And then he realized that there was a riot in 1968. And so there was time to buy property in Hong Kong and all the property prices were falling.

[00:39:37] Anthony Scaramucci: And he says, so what I'm going to tell you, Anthony is leave money on the table for your. Because if you leave money on the table for your partners, you're always gonna have partners. You're always gonna have people that do business with you want to be that heavy that you described the hedge fund guy.

[00:39:52] Anthony Scaramucci: You want to nickel and dime that last guy it's not healthy. And let me tell you something, you may get the nickel, we're negotiating and you're pushing me for the nickel and I give you the nickel and you're going to be miserable. You know why? Because you're going to want to Nichols. It's never going to be enough.

[00:40:12] Anthony Scaramucci: And I'm sitting here at age 70. I leave the money on the table and I pick up the phone. There's a hundred people a day that want to do business with me. And so that's something you're young or old, but your young listeners should really take to heart, is it that's awesome. I'd thank you for sharing that.

[00:40:28] Oren Klaff: I appreciate. And I think everybody who's gotten to some measure of success has had to live through some version of that. I know when I was 35, I was a super aggressive pitch man for equity. And we had a deal we were selling and I told my partner, Hey, there, he was older. There's so much demand for this deal.

[00:40:46] Oren Klaff: I can sell it at a four cap. And I can raise all $20 million at a four cap. And now are $3.4 million payday is going to turn into 5.8 and he would say, don't do that. I said, why it can I've generated the demand, built the pitch. It's a great asset.

[00:41:01] Oren Klaff: I've laid the foundation. He said, don't be a pig, leave something on the table. So I think everybody's yeah. And I love it because, you, you identify with an, the other thing is it makes you better as a person. Makes you better as a person. It may shift, and back your friends when they're in trouble, by the way.

[00:41:18] Anthony Scaramucci: That's another thing, I've got buddies in mind. You don't think I've been, I'm an Italian from long island. He's guy. You haven't been through a prison or of course I have, but you don't walk away from your friends, you back your friends when they're in trouble. Yeah. I think, share some stories there.

[00:41:31] Oren Klaff: I have two last quick question then I'll let you get on to your day. What is your day now? You're at the end of your day?

[00:41:37] Anthony Scaramucci: I'm in the middle part of my day, I get up at five 30. I try to hit the gym. Then I eat breakfast. I'm a breakfast person. Some people are not. And then I start with a series of sales meetings and then I have my compliance meetings.

[00:41:50] Anthony Scaramucci: I'm very big on compliance at our farm. I think it's the number one thing. Keep your reputation square. And then I do some media, things like that. But I do a lot of presentations, macro economics presentations. We're building our salt conference right now. Yesterday. I visited the new Javits center, the Jacob Javits center to the VIP extension, which looks like one of the most world-class conference facilities.

[00:42:13] Anthony Scaramucci: And I'd bet a lot of conference facilities. It's beautiful. And so we're going to be, we have, I just signed the chain smokers. They're going to be doing the entertainment at our conference. And so I'm in the process of lining up the speakers and making a lot of calls today related to that. I'm talking to FAS around the country that we sell our products to we're about to launch an Ethereum fund.

[00:42:33] Anthony Scaramucci: We have a Bitcoin fund we're about to launch it in theory and fund on July 1st. And so I'm involved in the marketing and launch of that. I interviewed general. Yeah. I don't know if you recall that the Lieutenant general, he was, they call them category five general category five. He is working on the 6th of January insurrection investigation, what the Capitol police needed to do better.

[00:42:59] Anthony Scaramucci: And so I interviewed him for my salt talk series which I interviewed a commissioner Bratton last week. I tried to pick a few people a week to interview posts up on our YouTube channel because I want to be in that thought leadership space. And I want to hear from some of the best and brightest minds out there.

[00:43:14] Anthony Scaramucci: That's my day, and then obviously I try to, I power down and try to spend time with the kids in the family, but you know what, some days I don't do that, I work until nine or 10 o'clock at night, I'm on the phone. And talking to Sam, Bankman freed, who I want to say thank you to he's one of the largest crypto exchanges he's based out of Hong Kong.

[00:43:32] Anthony Scaramucci: He just sponsored our event, the salt conference. So I may be on the phone with him at eight o'clock at night, which is 8:00 AM his time in Hong Kong. That's awesome. And it's a very different conversation with you then what I expected from, the media on some of the other impressions, very centered value, driven, not salesy focused really fantastic conversation.

[00:43:53] Anthony Scaramucci: Okay you get profiled in the media, my brother, you get profiled, I, go look at my resume if I had no hair and I wasn't Italian, and my last name was different than you read my academic background. And you looked at my resume, you'd have a different opinion on me, I have a long island accent.

[00:44:09] Anthony Scaramucci: I grew up in an Italian neighborhood, I, I got my ass kicked and I've done some ass kicking. And you get profiled. I get it. And by the way, I'm cool with that. I don't give a shit about it. I'm just pointing it out. And I would tell other people, if you're bummed out about being profiled or you feel you're being ethically stigmatized, who cares?

[00:44:27] Anthony Scaramucci: Just go no self pity, just go live your life. Scaramucci. That's Comanche Romanian. That's the origins of that Scaramucci. Actually, that was something they would tease him about it on the wire. It actually means it means small skirmish, believe it or not. And there was a a character in the Camita Della art.

[00:44:48] Anthony Scaramucci: They called LA Scaramucci up and he always came out of the stage to start a fight. And so maybe I'm appropriately named, I don't know. It's a funny, last name in Italy. Let's put it that way now. Now it means big skirmish. So two other quick questions. So look here, motherfucker. I'm swearing.

[00:45:05] Oren Klaff: Yeah, I start it. I swear quite a bit. I use it strategically by the way, I'm going with that. Cause I swear all the time, I swear all the time, but there's a place and a time to do it and there's a way to do it. Some people just swear awkwardly, like they're trying to just get it out and they got it out on the table.

[00:45:30] Oren Klaff: She could be honest, man. I don't know. Sometimes it just comes out of my mouth, so I think it has to flow, but do you have an opinion on it? Does it affect you're interviewing somebody you're interviewing somebody for a position, right? You guys are mid interview. You're not talking about families and everything and they, they swear in the interview.

[00:45:46] Anthony Scaramucci: It depends, if it's well placed and if I get the guy's personality or the woman's personality, I'm probably okay with it. Cursing is one thing, but also being, you gotta be at the right level of formality at the right times. I think my sense of it is whenever it lifts the situation up, add some levity, add some tone, adds just an ex an exclamation point. If it's bitter or it's self-serving, then I find it falls flat.

[00:46:15] Oren Klaff: Or every, if it's for you, it's for you. If you're swearing for you, then it falls flat. If you're swearing for everybody, then it can be a lot of fun. I think it's, I think I see, it's interesting cause you're a pro you seem pretty processed. When were you, did you know, you have some really good thoughts that are a little bit more formulaic than mine, but I agree with what you're saying.

[00:46:39] Oren Klaff: I think that's actually true when I think about it. I I speak at a lot of conferences, so I have to have something to talk about and people want formulas to take away. Last thing, presumably you could just, get a Iridium phone and disappear to some island and turn it on, twice a year at Eastern Christen.

[00:46:54] Oren Klaff: And, do that. So why still show up to work? I find like ever I have a friend who's selling his company this week. He's going to get a hundred million dollar check on frightened, how to check a wire on Friday. And it's awesome. They're just email Hey, what's your wiring instructions.

[00:47:07] Oren Klaff: And he's just replying to email with his wiring instructions for a hundred million dollars. And he's calling me and going on to, I'm going to take a day off. And on Tuesday I got a couple ideas for something we can get started. What is that? Why don't you have an Iridium phone, a boat?

[00:47:20] Anthony Scaramucci: It's a really, it's a really good question. Some people are wired for that. Yeah. And some people are wired for work. David Rubinstein the one of the founders of Carlisle. He has this wonderful sign. He has this beautiful house in Nantucket on the bluff, obviously incredibly wealthy, man. He's in his seventies.

[00:47:36] Anthony Scaramucci: Now you go to the front door and there's a sign on the door. It says rather be working. There's this beautiful vacation house. And some people are wired for work and other people are not. And so I happened to be wired for work. Maybe it's DNA, maybe it's habits. My 94 year old uncle who ran a motorcycle shop when I was a kid and I worked for him, he lied about his draft.

[00:48:03] Anthony Scaramucci: He lied on his draft card to get into the army. He fought in the battle of the bulge in December of 1945. He's 94 today born in 1927. And he is a big believer in work. He drives around in his truck. He drives around in a side car and he thinks the work keeps them alive and keeps them fresh and keeps them sharp.

[00:48:26] Anthony Scaramucci: I know other people, they drop the work, they go to fish, they get the Iridium phone. They're the happiest that they've ever been in their life. And they live another 50 years, but I know people that do that and all of a sudden they start to Kang and they lose their mojo. I think it's. It's up to you, but I believe entrepreneurs are picking things that they dreamed about doing.

[00:48:52] Anthony Scaramucci: And so when I was a kid, am I doing exactly what I dreamed about? No, but it's in the right sleeve. It's in the right design, Rob. And so therefore, and I'm getting up in the morning. I don't feel like I'm working. You see what I mean? And I tell my kids this, like my son is a videographer. He dropped out of college to be a videographer that goes against the establishment of the consensus, but not against me.

[00:49:14] Anthony Scaramucci: I live by the immortal words of what Mel Brooks talks about. Mel Brooks, the American comedian is my philosopher king, and he's got the best line ever relaxed. None of us are getting out of here alive, relax, and just think about it. So what am I doing? What am I going to do today? Is this fulfilling?

[00:49:31] Anthony Scaramucci: Is this going to help me? Is it going to help others? Yeah, then I want to do it. And for my kids, if that's your dream, go do it because you're going to blink. You're going to be 90. You look back and said, what the hell happened, and I want them to say, I gave it my best shot and went for something.

[00:49:48] Anthony Scaramucci: And one of the things I will tell everybody on this call, I haven't reached every one of my dreams, but the fact that I'm going for it is invigorating. It is stimulating. And the fact that I have been thrown from the horse metaphorically and, look at what happened to me at the widest. I got ejected like an Austin Powers, villains skin, the live, and then rolled in margarita salt.

[00:50:09] Anthony Scaramucci: Okay. So what, here I am, don't live with any regret either. I don't wake up in the morning or an and say, okay, let me kick myself in the pants today. I stupidly got fired from the white house four years ago. Let me be self-pitying and smack myself in the ass this morning. I don't do that. I said, okay, that happened.

[00:50:25] Anthony Scaramucci: I learned from it. Let's move on.

[00:50:27] Oren Klaff: I want to just take, not that there is pressure, but I want you to take a little bit of pressure off of you. You're on the east coast, close to Washington, we're out here, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, like this is there just isn't that view or perspective or that long memory or that sort of intensity framing it up with, it's just, you're right there, but move 3000 miles this direction, nobody coming into an interview with you is interested in that, in what you're doing in crypto, where you're, I think that's bringing it up because I think as an entrepreneur, what I find the left coast is very interested in, unless you tell me differently is adapting, and pivoting resilience.

[00:51:14] Anthony Scaramucci: I think west coast, people that are making investments in entrepreneur. Or okay, can this person, man, or woman take the heat in this person fail, but fail with some level of values, dignity and some level of adoptation. You see what I'm saying? So that's why bringing it up. But I agree with you as it relates to the red hot and it's of the politics, I think it's less relevant.

[00:51:37] Anthony Scaramucci: What's relevant is can you get up after you've gotten kicked in the teeth? That that, that's my point. Yeah. A hundred percent. And so I'm gonna let you get back, I'm getting the hook on time. I'm gonna let you get date. Thank you for the pleasure. I'd like to invite you on MOOC. FM is what I get.

[00:51:56] Anthony Scaramucci: I get to do the interview. Okay. I'm going to reach out to your team. Let's do it.